Tired of Getting My Ass Kicked

@YoshiDivine - Junon has already answered you :)

@Junon - can you gimme some vs Marduk wall carry in 1SS and NSS? Yeah, I'm getting a bit lazy ^^ Help me out :)

Well, I don't know much about 1ss carries vs marduk, but for NSS:

df2_uf3: f+3+4, 1, f+3+4, 1, f+3+4 b21 :D Saves B!, and carries wayyyyyyy far with bonus damage potential.

Just a general strategy I do vs marduk in 1ss: post B!, I'll uf+1+2~ d at the first opportunity to observe how the opp reacts post B!. If they tech/ lay down, it still hits as we all know. But the main point of this is to catch people sleeping on the ground. If they sleep, dash d+1+2 > 1+2, b21 kin f2 for an extra what... 70ish (maybe a bit less?) points of damage, after a combo, just cause they slept.

I really love yoshis oki game, especially vs bigs. The only safety is if yoshi reads the opponents reaction wrong. Massive damage potential if you guess right in any situation.

Question though: Can yoshi hit all bigs with repetitive b2's? Or is it kuma only? Ie:

u3+4, f+1+2 B! b2, b2, b21?

ok, i got two more recent videos coming soon

Added 3 hours 21 minutes later:

ok here they are. now i did these battles today, so this is currently how i play. so Junon & TenTen, tell me everything thats wrong with my yoshi. m looking forward to your evaluation.



Added 20 hours 48 minutes later:

wow, everyones missing in action...

This post was edited by YoshiDivine (2011-06-12 01:47, 9 years ago)

Weekends are for resting you know ^^ Okay, just joking :)

You have improved, a lot! What's the time difference between the first fight and these two?

What I see improved:
- more moves in use
- better feeling of movement and the moves' range
- better juggles (although still not perfect)

The not-so-good things:
- don't use b+2,1 unless in a juggle as a juggle ender: it will hurt versus better opponents (launch-punishable). Use single b+2 and b+2~KIN (+mixups)
- u/f+3 into flash - I think you realize it's a strategy valid only online, and not versus all opponents. It's good though, can suprise and works due to lag. Just don't get predictable with it, it can be dangrous to Yoshi's health :P

The direction of further improvement:
- I noticed that you can't distinguish how a move has just hit: like hitting an airborne opponent with a flash and entering Flea when it obviously won't hit. Train to improve your proper evaluation of situation: it will be later essential in the next step of your improvement: going into on-reaction setups and okizeme strategies. Focus to see whether a move was blocked, or hit... and when it hit: how? Counter Hit? Airborne? On backdash?
- Continue with adding more moves to your repertoire. Start with faster moves, like punches, d/f+1, d/f+4, d+4.

After a while, we'll get into custom strings and setups. Do you know what are these? Can you give examples? (I'm just trying to see where you are now)

Added 10 minutes later:

# Junon :
Question though: Can yoshi hit all bigs with repetitive b2's? Or is it kuma only? Ie:

u3+4, f+1+2 B! b2, b2, b21?

Hmm, dunno... will have to test it. ^^'

This post was edited by Tenshimitsu (2011-06-12 20:14, 9 years ago)

the timee difference is about 3 weeks maximum. i got demoted about 3 times in one night :( so i fell from berserker to master... yuk. so i quit online kuz i realise the rank was all i cared about. went into player match and started learning from YOSHIMOSHI and a few others. and thanks, i have some more for you. coming soon. these are gonna be way more exciting. the new videos are gonna show u how i play at my peak again some god like ppl whose ranks i've never even heard of. so when i stepped into the ring with my pathetic looking master rank it caught alot of the high ranks off guard. by the way, i have a question, or a complaint rather. you see the knee? that yoshi knee? i heard its one of yoshi's most powerful juggle starters, and that it puts and end to alot of shenanigans from opponents. but when i use the knee it has absolutely no priority whatsoever [f,f+4]. and to me the range is short while others say its long. whenever i use it i get knocked out of it right away, and not because i whiffed. so my question is, when is this knee [f,f+4] suppose to be used?

Looked more like 3 years if you asked me =p

Haha, about the knee... don't worry, I also couldn't use it at first. I was like "WTH, people say it's great and I can't use it!"

... now it's one of my main attacks that actually cause lots of damage. So it will come with practice I suppose...

It's rather used when opponent is at defense (backdashing), not offense, actually. So if he's going to poke you straight away after your move, f,f+4 won't be fast enough. Unless you have some +8ish frame advantage, in this case it's uninterruptible ^^

Well, in other Yoshi's games, in some cases, you'll see things like "FC punch, f,f+4" ... but it's because they predicted opponent wanting to gain spacing, not because it goes into opponent's moves.

f,f+4 really has the range, just hold on the second F for a bit longer time. f,F~n+4

After some time... this move will become your opponent's nightmare. They'll be like: "Not this shit again! *rage quit*". hehe :) Train to use it properly.

Some first impressions: Seems you're on the right track :D I'm in agreement with Tenshi: more quick pokes and learn your juggles.

Outside of that, I like your use of uf2. However, you followed up with uf3 on hit and this only connected maybe once out of the two videos. Learn to adapt to your opponents reactions to certain moves. When uf2 hit, your opponent seemed caught off guard, and decided to stand block. You followed with uf3, and were lucky not to be punished. uf2 puts you in crouch, so I'd say to toy around with FC or WS mixups (I'd bet that uf2 to swordsweep would work on these opponents, but be careful with more experienced players).

This goes back to knowing your juggles, but I only only use f+3+4 post B! when you're far from the wall. Other than that, learn the distance of ss1_d22_b21_f3+4 post B! and use them properly.

uf3 also seems to be your panic button... This can get you in trouble (like ~1:15ish of the 2nd vid how you got floated). Just be wary of throwing it out as often as you did. Just remember, it's punishable.

Heal more :D If you have time to turtle/ space, you have time to gain a little health (never stand still like you did at ~1min of the 2nd video, NEVER! Even if you're toying with the opponent, you should be healing -- that'll force them to attack you). I love using the MED stance for healing, but the amount it gives is crap compared to IND.

I prefer MED for healing is because if you have enough time (a lot is needed), MED 1+2 for a decent regain, or just stand for small gains (I rarely MED 1+2 unless I'm 100% sure I won't be hit). But the reason I prefer it is because of it's evasion properties. MED b~db evades pretty much anything and everything if done properly, and gives the opportunity for whiff punishes. Difficult to learn at first, but it's very valuable. Then there's Med~ b to clear small distance.

IND by comparison gives much more health, but it's risker as many characters can easily float yoshi for a full combo.

Your playstyle seemed pretty linear as well, practice sidestepping. I'm still learning how to myself :p. But again, you're on the right track, so keep it up!

@Junon, Thanks bro! i gasped when i read the part that says "uf2 to swordsweep". that would be an amazing follow up. a shit load of people would get caught off gaurd by that.

@Ralenzo, thanks for the compliment :P lol

@TenTen, i'd luv to start learning that knee, it looks so kool, but yet, i think the problem iles where you have to stop defending and double tap [f] and most likely the opponent would see/glimpse u walking forward and start panic attacking.

Thanks for the comments and reviews everybody! :o)
look out for the new videos coming soon.

Not a problem, just be sure to keep mixing it up, that's what makes yoshi so great. uf2 to swordsweep will prob work depending on the range (I typically use uf2 to hit at max range, but you seem to use it closer than I do, so you may find some benefit). If you're successfull with uf2 to swordsweep, and your opponent catches on and hopkicks, do uf2 to uf4 for a free bound ;D (situational, of course). If you think swordsweep will whiff, switch to FC df4, or play with some WS mixups.

Speaking of WS mixups, I only recall seeing you use ws1111. Don't forget to use ws 212, ws12 -- they're all great, but these three have one major flaw... You'll know it when it happens to you, but you'll prolly only see it from higher level players.

# Junon : Speaking of WS mixups, I only recall seeing you use ws1111. Don't forget to use ws 212, ws12 -- they're all great, but these three have one major flaw... You'll know it when it happens to you, but you'll prolly only see it from higher level players.

Yeah, indeed ^^ Also, WS+2 is a nice SS catcher.

@YoshiDivine: in f,f+4, generally you should be doing it so fast that f,f isn't visible (unless you're extending range). Go to practice and do it as fast as you can. The only trick is to press the last "f" and 4 at once. :)

Hi fellows .. Sorry was busy doing nothing..and i have seen your videos ydivine... If you want to get the feel of walls and carry.. Just juggle with 1 and dash and then 1 punch and dash... It is quite consistent though you would some lose damage.. And about the uf 2 cancel into sword sweep.. I highly doubt it would work... I mean from my experience.. My pal over here crushes sword sweep 90% of times unless tech trap... He would avoid almost all lows... So forget all those sheningai etc... All you can do with Yoshi is ...feel the distance throw out safe moves and sacrifice damage for better oki. The answer to everything you ask is on your way... Oh and last bit of advice... play tough opponents and watch professional matches... You might not see any traps or what so ever except with kinghem...( that guy is crazy ... XD) watch and learn bro... Watch and learn...

Added 7 minutes later:

Oh and about the while standing moves... Ws1,1 is not a natural combo.. You would have to sacrifice your health for evading spin as the second hit is high and you dont get much from a whiffed evade spin cos of its recover... Ws1,2... Same story... Ws 2,1,2 or ws 2,1,3 ... Second hit can be ducked...easily... Ws3,2.. Though both hits are mid they are not natural combos and are linear and punishable... Ws4 lacks range... Oh ws 1+2 does catch any one trying to hopkick you out of crouching position.. So much for ws moves... Tata

This post was edited by vijay_kumar_cute (2011-06-13 20:39, 9 years ago)

# vijay_kumar_cute :
Oh and about the while standing moves... Ws1,1 is not a natural combo..

Well, in fact it is a natural combo: if first hits, second hits as well. In theory. :) Practically, you'll see many times that second whiffs if Yoshi is at angle. Maybe that's why you thought it's not a NC.

And there's the major flaw with yoshis WS strings :P They can all be ducked. But there's ways to escape with minor damage. ws11~ b3_b4; and ws2~ b3_b4 can evade a lot, at the expense of taking a bit of health. Sometimes a little is better than eating a launcher, especially if the opp randomly or auto attacks and whiffs for a launch.

The way I play yoshi using these type of strategies is kinda like an onion. I use the bulk of yoshis command list to feel out the opponent, and peel off layers depending on their skill level. The higher the skill, the less variety of moves I'm able to effectively use. I mentioned the ws strings for yoshidivine cause I'm about 99% sure it would work on the opponents he was playing in the videos :) And you can't forget shenanigans! That's what makes yoshi so great! His random moves and traps are what makes my opponents pull their hair out haha.

edit: lol at my post rank. I'm a "1th kyu" :P

Funny that you mention it... I was actually looking at your and Yoshdivine's level... Both being 1st kyu... And would any one mind telling me that will it be possible to punish after whiff of ws1,1 and evading spin (b+3) and punish that whiff.. I think b+3 is -11...

Added 3 minutes later:

Can any one give me some examples of shenanigans....