About Throws

It's a post for Mr Harada regarding my thoughts about throws in Tekken.

The throw system is nearly perfect. Nearly... because I think it needs just a little adjustment to the new game as Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Unlimited.

Throws can be broken judging from the throw animation. The big (and quite unfair) exception are giant swings since their animation looks like 1+2-break throw. But it's not important in my post.

Advanced players already know that it's quite easy to conceal the throw animation by sidestepping in either direction. By the time the camera adjusts position, the throw is already in progress and in a resulting chaos, it's extremely difficult to tell one throw from another. Ducking is not an option because of the often-used tactic of sidestep->hopkick. Not to mention there are quickroll traps in which ducking is not possible at all (and the quickroll by itself changes camera angle).

With the better movement system of Tekken Tag 2, it will be much easier to sidestep and thus conceal the throw animation. We can already see in top level matches (Tekken Busters show) that top players don't break throws as frequently as they used to break.

Another thing is character customization. Some of the customizations available greatly conceal opponent's arms, so that it additionally makes it hard to see the throw animation.

Yet another argument for applying this change is the length of Tag combos. It's already frustrating for intermediate players to not be able to do anything in the process of being juggled. I don't think that the difficulty of breaking throws should add up to the already high level of frustration. Tekken should be above all else: enjoyable. Make breaking throws easier so that breaking them will be accessible to a larger amount of players (and so bringing more fun to them), and people won't feel chickened by throw abuse.

It also concerns online gameplay and throws being considered "cheap". Throws should be easier to break because of this.

My suggestion

I wanted for a long time a distinctive, unique shout that would always accompany the certain throw execution. Eg. Law would shout "hiya" with left-hand throw, "hugh!" with right-side throw and "seiyaa" with both-hands throw. It's only and example.

This way:
- it would be easier to break throws when there's havoc on the screen
- it still requires reflexes!
- it still would make a player think if opponent sidestepped deep enough for the throw to become a side throw (and so even though the throw would normally have a "rp" break, the deep sidestep would make it a "lp" break since the throw became a side-throw.
- to add difficulty, the shout should start at the beginning of the throw animation, not at the beginning of the "extend arms" animation.

Please make it happen!

This post was edited by Tenshimitsu (2012-07-25 10:10, 5 years ago)

Sounds like an interesting idea, but I think it would be unlikely that it would be implemented.  There's a few moves in the game I can identify via the sound -- for example:  Lars' SE 2.  If i'm in a mixup situation, I'll just listen for the grunt and then duck, otherwise just block/ punish. 

Man, that would be a headache trying to learn each characters sound bits in relation to their throws :D

 Yes, that's why the reaction time would be shorter (shout at the beginning of the very throw animation), but hey, there would be a possibility. "want to break on hearing shouts? Go practice it!". At least there's a chance of breaking a throw in a chaotic situation if you're cold-blooded enough.

I also identify Lars' SE 2 move by the sound, but is it wrong? It also requires some knowledge and reflexes. 

I think it would be an ideal change.

P.S. I was just reading some master thesis about reaction times on sound in a "choice test". They had average reaction time around 500ms (compared to testing sight reflexes which varied around 300ms on similar test), so it's really not that of a good result.

Of course we as gamers have a lot better reaction times, but well... breaking throws on animation is not a mere "green light - red light" test, but a matter of seeing a complex animation from different sides and on different angles, too many times we're forced only to guess because we can't see anything. Not to mention dark stages + dark clothes, customizations, and Zafina/Christie's tiny arms, etc.

I would love to have this additional feature in TTT2. I count on Harada to implement it. It can be adjusted however they wish as for shout duration and reaction time, but it really should be there. 

 I also agree with what you're saying, but disagree with the solution.. I think the sound should never be required to play, you can't always count on your ears, especially in loud arcades with 20 machines making the same noises standing all lined up in a row... Something could be done to make throw breaking easier to do on reaction and not have it be 90% guesswork, but it would have to be visual.. I still see plenty of throws being broken, maybe less than in T6, but also you have to account for the crowd, the lights, the pyrotechnics, the camera, the DJ, and the beautiful women, that could all have played a part in why the Tekken Busters' players couldn't break as often as they should have.

I'm quite indifferent about arcades, I care only about console release. :) But can't you plug headphones to the arcade machine?

 That's not something I've seen with TTT2, but if so, my argument goes out the window...

Tenten, agree with you. however i also think that unique sounds isnt the way to go. as mattsu said, in arcades there's lots of interferance.
HOWEVER!! i have a better solution..... its.... COLOR!

remember in T6 when a character grabs there's this purple blot when the hands make conact with the opponent?
why not just use differently coloured blots to distinguish different throws? PURPLE, GREEN AND BLUE or even RED, so long as the colors implemented are very distinctive in any arena, stage, environment and even in confusion.

i have another suggestion.

I've met alot of good players online, and i wanted to fight atleast 10 of them in player matches. in other words, i wanna have the ability to host my own online tournaments by hosting a room thats capable of accomodating 10 players instead of T6's 4 players. i think itll be kool if a bunch of bad-asses were to get together in a hype 10-man tournament and battle till their hearts content. ALSO! record mode. instead of recording ranked matches only, i'd like to record some player matches as well.

and please kindly fix the netcode, tekken is the only game i have trouble with when it comes to online gameplay quality. i have no trouble with street fighter 4 nor with halo reach nor with modern warfare 3, only tekken.

one more request!

i wish to have yoshi's wardrobe updated. give him more of a "warlord" wardrobe, kinda like heihachi's wardrobe. u kno? give him some serious armor, and include BLACK AURA.

*here i am rambling my concerns and i dont even know if mr. harada even visits this divine forum*

I'd prefer sound over color.  I wouldn't want to lose my grab mixups with armor king (since he has giant swing, ddt, and any other 1+2 break -- all of which look like 1+2) muahahahah

hahahahaha, lol, then color it is! the bare fact that junon now has to rethink some things means it should work. lol ^_^