Saviour Fist

kalorful : doesn't ff+4 punish whiffs well enough?

Absolutely, just not on immediately on a startup. Im not 100% sure on frame data, but the collision is just after the move starts with a wind-down period afterwards after his back turns, so once again, distance is imperative; espically against the likes of Hwoarang, Bryan and Paul. You get a bit more freedom against Jack-6 and Panda, but yeah, his Knee Cap was a bit nerfed.

Whiff Punish.... Only at safe distance. I found that his T+1+2 is one of his best in close punishers right next to DT+1 and DT+4. B+1+2 and 3~4 on mid-range anticipation so you could reel back. T+3+4 on 2+ character lengths away on attack anticipation (3~4 works well here as well). I seriously need to get into some hardcore, tourney style games so I can actually back up my words for a true 100%. I would say I stand at 75% right now :D. Man, I want a PS3.... I gotta battle you guys for hands on input....

-Saikoro

This post was edited by Saikoro (2009-11-12 14:48, 8 years ago)

Saikoro, what is "T" and "DT" in your notations? It's the first time I see notations like this..

f,f+4 on whiff... you might be a bit late. People usually don't throw into the air moves with large recovery, they try punches, quick WS moves (but if they do, f,f+4 on the way! :) ). Whiff punishing relies on fast moves and good reflexes. I usually whiff-punish with d/f+2,2 on reflex after Backdashing/Sidestepping somebody's move, sometimes u/f+3 upclose if I manage to SS punches successfully, also his 3~4 is best whiff punisher from far away since on hit you can enter Dragonfly for uninterruptible DGF 4 (which CHs any attack attempts). But beware, on block you can only hold on ~D and pray not to be jabbed out of air, bounded and juggled, so you must be sure the recovery will be enough to whiff-punish.

But how you can compare this to old Kamikaze (f+3+4), f,f+4, d/f+2? I could whiff-punish almost from the other end of arena :P

f,f+4 is better in anticipation of backdash, it chases opponent's backdash and launches him. Best used in FC mixup, since you can also do it from FC easily, if you expect somebody wants to backdash your Sword Sweep.

----

Anyways, don't get me wrong. I will complain on Yoshi where I see that Namco didn't put much care. He has good moves, but "Devil is in the details". The old moves aren't "updated" to Tekken 6. The animation, frames: they are all old, coming from tekken DR system. In tekken 6, though, the movement is more tight, the backdash and SS travel closer, the hitboxes of basic moves are greatly enlarged. That's why (because of the bigger hitbox) moves like SS+1, 4~3, u+3+4 or b+1+2 don't do their jobs as they used to. They don't evade moves properly.

At least it's my feeling.

But hey... Yoshimitsu rulezzz forever and we will prove anybody that he's a character other people should really fear. :D

Okay, I'll throw you some setups to make you cheer up ^^:

1. f+1+2 (hit), u/f+1+2~D (hits everything besides backroll, but for backroll you have run up~b+2,1, KINf+2 :D)

2. KIN 1 (single sword on hit), QCB+1+2 (throw setup) - explanation: KIN 1 travels from middle-far distance to really upclose - nice throw setup.

3. 3~4, SS (and then u/f+3 on reaction against whiff or QCB+1+2 (throw) on turtlers.

4. End juggle with BOUND!, SS+1, and then ... b,b+1+4 - a techroll trap with unblockable.

5. d/f+2 (hit), 1+4 (Flash trap No 1.)

6. 1,1 (hit) 1+4 (Flash trap No 2., on people loving to spam WS attack after 1,1. Flash double hits in this case, but it's we who are standing :))

7. NSS d/b+2,2,2,2, FC d+1+2 (Flash trap No 3.)

8. d/f+4(hit) f,n,d,d/f+1 - popular launcher setup

... more coming...

This post was edited by Tenshimitsu (2009-11-12 18:09, 8 years ago)

I also read about that Nationals tournament in USA, I plan to attend but they haven't released the location yet I don't think. Also there's smaller tournaments all across the country, I will also be attending a few of these.. Then we have EVO, I'm going to be busy traveling to compete, and I couldn't be happier! The nationals tournament that MYK interviewed Markman about is in California, and that's a little far to travel for me on such short notice, but hopefully the other nationals Tournament they spoke of will be held somewhere closer to the center of the country..

So I wish you best luck, Yoshimattsu! :) I'll try to come with more setups, thoughts and strategies about Yoshi as I progress with my play.

I just ... tend to be pesimistic since my sparring partner is a great player, who reads me really well. That's why I'm pesimistic about Yoshi not only because it's proven that he has little defense, but also because it's so easy for top tiers to launch somebody with little risk for a juggle + wall + okizeme.

I'll also attend one tournament soon, on 5th-6th of December. Say: first Polish Tekken Nationals. :) People will play new chars for sure. :D But i have little hope for any good results. Time will tell, by now I train quite hard, "use imagination as a weapon", come up with some confusing strats, try to think up mixups (quite tough :P) and tighten up my basics (throw escaping, movement, instant WS, etc).

Tekken 6 is really pretty unforgivable for Yoshi... the basics must be made of iron.

Tenshimitsu : Saikoro, what is "T" and "DT" in your notations? It's the first time I see notations like this..

T and DT mean "Towards" and "DownTowards." I use Toward instead of Forward.... just more of a preference really.

And dont be pessimistic!! It sucks only having one sparring partner.... mine was the A.I. for nearly three years, so I can relate to you there. And if it wasnt for the A.I. I would have nobody!! I think I should be in your pessimistic shoes instead....

And we will be able to "Spar" quite soon, a PS3 is in my near future. 2 months from now at the absolute latest. :D

-Saikoro

Tenshimitsu :
I also disagree that Yoshimitsu is stronger in Tekken 6 BR. Stronger juggles? Ok. But overally stronger? Nope. If you refer "stronger" as "more competitive", Yoshimitsu doesn't have anything that makes him a more competitive character than in previous Tekkens.



If you meant when I said he was stronger in the "Lag impressions" forum, I only meant he was stronger after some practice than I initially thought, not stronger then he was in T5DR

i'm sticking with the invincible knee cap (not that invincible anymore... in T5 it was awesome)

in t5 it was 10 frame true, but it didn't juggle and it had a terrible recovery (punishable on block)

8 frames more exactly, and it's the only thing that could punish Paul's long range DF and demolition man. Not to mention that ws+1 into f,f+4 was NC that could lead to wall plat. Its original intend was to outspeed your opponent, so when you are using it as it was intended:

1. interrupt an incoming attack (rolling forward dive, outspeed obvious forward-traveling or evasive moves.)

2. punish whiffs and certain blocks that push-back.

Making f,f+4 safe was never necessary since f,f+4 was not a setup starter w/ its traveling range (an ideal setup starter shouldn't move too much due to the possible off-axis effect). In fact, I would rather have the i7(bufferable)f,f+4 anytime than his BR version. The forced BT mixup post block in BR was a bit unreasonable, considering that his BT games were pretty much murdered by Namco.


Yoshi in DR did not need any more launchers that he already had. f+2_d/f+2_u/f+3 when facing opponent (one for whiff/big frame punish, one for solid launcher, and one for crushing/speed), and BT u/f+4_MED 3+4_BT 3 when facing away. The removal of safe d/f+2 as well as 2 out of 3 launcher option from BT is NOT a good trade for f,f+4 being a launcher, let alone having it slower than d/f+2,2.

In addition, due to the change in f,f+4 properties, yoshi no longer has a long range/pushback punisher. DF in mid-long range on block and demolition man on block remain completely safe against Yoshi, where almost all the rest of the cast can punish at least one of the two attacks I mentioned.

This post was edited by NoodleHead (2009-12-02 07:20, 7 years ago)

I'm glad you returned here, Nood :)

After Christmas, YOT will be much modernized (I'll have much days off), also I plan to open a big strategy section. Gonna train Yoshi hard. ^^

This saturday there's a big T6 Tournament in Poland... I'm quite worried about it. I think I might not make it outside the group, we will see. At least my friends play toptiers. :)

Hello! :D Yeah, I check here once a while but I don't post here as often as I do in TZ. I am actually thinking of finding a place (not TZ) to have some brainstorming w/ BR Yoshi so the lazy people will not be able to find the more in-depth strats/tricks about him.

(in other words, here seems to be a good place, especially w/ you around lol)

... Good luck w/ Yoshi, if you are planning to use him as your main in the tourney. :p

I think I found Saviour Fist #2....

DF+1+2,2

It goes under anything high (Brownie points if you can perform this on anticipation going directly under something!!), sneaks in as a Low even though it looks like a mid, and the secondary hit carries a long distance thats also guaranteed 99% after the first one connects. Also, the move has a horizontal radius, so youre safe on sidestepping opposition. You can also perform the move twice over and youre sure to connect again!!

This move has saved my ass plenty of times. Just make sure your distancing is on par as its start up is a bit slow. Totally safe from 1.5 characters away

Its also a great follow-up to a counter 1+4 or DF+2,2 connecting to mix your game up (Even moreso if this carries your opponent into a wall). Ive implemented this move into my game and Ive seen some good results.

Thoughts??

-Saikoro

Yep, Nood, I think this is the right place :). The strategy Blogs will be available only for YOT Members. I'll make a Wiki so that everybody could add something on their own.

I feel just as you: to share my strategy, but only with the narrow group of people. Yoshi is too weak to toss strategies around the net.

Yep, I'm planning to use Yoshi as my main. I'm not yet prepared to use any other character. Too much time spent on learning new characters and new moves. However, if I really will feel that I can't win with Yoshi, I'll switch to somebody else.

Saikoro: Yep, it is a very good move. But don't become too predictable. Opponents might become familiar with the animation and punish you on block. It's launch punishable, and generally easy to parry.

I love the idea Noodle and Tenshi!! I can't wait to see what everyone comes up with, I will try to contribute if I have any good ideas, but I have confidence that the two of you will have already thought of, and tested it before it enters my mind. Anyways, this has me totally stoked!

I am working Yoshi strat w/ one of my local friends atm.

d/f+2,2 d/b+1 FLE is something that is worth testing out. Apparently when done w/ correct timing, ~u/f afterward catches techroller 100%.