noob Qs

Hi everyone, i'm a new Yoshi noob and it feels nice to see the open and supportive culture of this forum.

I've read the FAQs and severa info on other threads (thanks for this everyone) and have been trying them out against AIs. However, I notice that I'm weak on walls (it's either the opponent or I am) and on 'keeping the pressure' on them. Can you guys shed me some light on how to escape being 'walled' and on how to keep the offensive against the opponent?

Thanks in advance!

Sidenote: What do you think about this move:

d/f+2, b+1,1,1,1 then kamikaze faint

Usually when the opponent quick rolls and attacks, they whiff for several moves leaving them open and Yoshi about 2 chars away...

What do you think is the best way to punish their whiffs? Or is this move even useful / safe? I'm thinking of his f,f+3+4 or u/f+3+4 moves but haven't tried them out yet...

Thanks again! Oops, sorry for the long post...:D

Heya, IHTNC. Let me try to see if i have something useful tips in my little scrap-book.

Wall-game: First of all, you gotta keep cool. Don't panic. You see you're cornered, and you do anything to make sure your back don't face that wall. DONT! Keep cool, and don't mind you've been cornered. Being risky i'd still recommend you to get your back off that wall. So:
- Defend - Block your opponent as good as you can, and retaliate.
- Pressure him - Lay a pressure,(safe pokes and similar are good) and force him to back off.
- Sidestep until your clear of the wall, and block Opp if he attacks.

I used to panic at those walls myself. I just didn't want to ending up as a poster from a good wall-combo. And so i made lots of irrational moves. BAD!
Poke him, throw him, counter him, FLASH him, juggle him - just don't panic! -.-


Keeping Pressure: If you wanna keep your pressure, and of course you wanna do that. Pressure is an offense - offense is damage - and damage is victory.
Well, there's serveral ways at doing this. BUT! You gotta find your own way. Practice makes perfect. Play, play, play - and when your fingers get sore, even bleeds - play some more!

- Know your juggles!
Some JG's (juggles) has high dmg (damage), and being JG's its guaranteed! But they're often not very okizeme friendly, meaning your okizeme gets limited - maybe even killed. So do you want the full profit of your guaranteed JG, or do you want to halving the JG dmg and benefit from a stronger okizeme?

- Know your frame-data!
Frame-data is essential if you don't wanna end up getting punished from gettin' your moves blocked. Know WHEN to use what, and how to use 'em. Don't use your high-frames moves from a distance where you know your chances of landing it is limited. Furthermore, you got moves which grands you plus damage, or forces your Opp in FC. Use this to your advantage!

- Be smart and learn by your mistakes!
Like i wrote above, don't go throwing off casual bad-frame moves, leaving yourself in a world of hurting. As your skills improove, you get a better sense of when to take the offense, when to be defensive and which moves fits the situation!
If you get backdashed and punished repeatedly, then maybe you'd want to dash in at first or courage your foe into making a mistake to turn the tables.

Well, can't think of anything else to say at the moment. I'll edit my post if i think of anything more.

Hope this is just a little useful.

//DNA

Hey thanks for the reply, DNA.

For the wall game, I'm still trying to familiarize to defend myself against being walled but for now, usually what works for me is a fast 2,2 poke, a f,f+4, or an accidental FC d/f+1 (I seem to do this move during these situations, although unintentionally, due to wrong input or mere panic, it seems to work at times). Though I still need to practice timing the flash move or doing some throws or sidestepping on these situations.

About the pressure / juggles, yeah, the juggles that I know of (read: basic) usually throws the opponent far out so I need to dash and just try to continue the damage while they're still grounded. Sometimes due to missed juggles they are left near yoshi and I try to do a 3,3 (or a 3,4 for variation) to continue the damage. I also find the f,f+4 useful to keep the presure. Do you have some mid-JG (the "halving the JG dmg and benefit from a stronger okizeme" you are talking about) pointers to share?

For frame-data, I am not yet particular about this but find some moves faster to hit than others like 2,2 or 4,4. I am not yet familiar with moves that leave opp in FC though (maybe I used some but am not exactly aware of this).

Yeah, I learned a lot from my mistakes playing yoshi. Sometimes I tend to repeat them but other times I managed to stay away. I think this is because I still try to force yoshi to be an offensive one like paul, steve etc. Good thing yoshi has life recovering moves. I more often saved myself from being crushed further by AI opps using life recovering moves.

Now I am getting used (or comfortable) against AI opponents (I remember Tenshi says they're predictable and I tend to agree). I guess I need to go out some more and try to play with good players or just wait for them to play with me (it seems that the latter part happens often, I am quitely playing with yoshi then they'll come and challenge poor me)

Thanks again, man, that was quite helpful.

Well - here i'd tell you to try n' stay as safe as possible - pokes and throws are those i'd recommend.

Heres some ideas:
- 1; d/f+4
custom string - can't be interrupted - and it's safe... Can almost be spammed
- 1,2
high-mid jabs - shoudl be safe if you don't follow up with 1!
- b,b,u/b
Used with your back is against the wall, Yoshi will run up the wall and make a backflip - if your Opp is close enough you'll end up behind him with him BT against you!!! (works with all chars
- f+3+4
Kamikaze! - it's takes some frames to pull off, and it's risky - but if succeded it'll sure turn the tables - and on block it pushes Opp back and gives you your space from the wall!
- 1+3_2+4 standard throws!
I don't have to tell you that these will flip positions all around - even if broken. And if succeded, they leave you with good oki options mostly

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You, for sure need to know ALL your stables. Often it's very situational what you need to use!
e.g:
- If your opp is low in life, you might wanna choke that oki option and run him down for full JG potential dmg.
- If you're far from anything, you may wanna choke some damage and go for the okizeme.

Furthermore, most juggle has what we call "enders" - you make same stuff, and end it off diffrently.
Examples of enders from the u/f+3 juggle:
- f+3+4
Full potential damage, but leaves Yoshi vulnerable - forward roll to Get-up3 low kick hits you!
- f,f+4
My perfeered - gives you your ender, and your oki options from here are decent.
- f+3
Most damage without taking the risk of that Get-up3 kick from f+3+4.
u/f+4
Best for oki, but low damage. furthermore, it's required you kill one spin to make this. But it leaves Opp right in front of you with no quickroll option ;)

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Frame data? Check Tekkenzaibatsu.com!!!

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If you are to learn anything about Tekken from the AI, don't take life! Just play the AI without taking advantage from their flaws! If you wanna win easily, just half a juggle and use b,b+1 - piece of cake!

But well - How you play Yoshi differs from person to person. I started out using him, so today i have like 3 or 4 diffrent styles with him. And i have no control of when i use which style. But my victories with Yoshi against other good players often come from my offense. Offense through juggles, pokes, oki and set-ups.

Well... I'm abit confused at the moment with MSN, hard trance in my ears and so forth. But i hope those things are just abit useful to you

Regs,
DNA

My usual ender is either f+3 or f+3+4. And I'm starting to experiment my options for f,f+4 and I find it close enough to start another offensive.

I also find adding f+2 to the d/f+2 juggle quite effective as it slaps your opponent and leave them in a slight BT (and I think you can do more than just the d/f+2 juggle from there)

Anyway, I'm trying to think of ways to make good use of yoshi's combo strings. The only thing I can think of is from a juggle starter, lots of whiffs, but most of the time the sword slashes at the end connects just in time. Do you use any of yoshi's strings or is it more advisable / safer not to?

I really dont use finishing moves and stuff like that. Im purley an oppurtunist fighter. If i get just one hit, i juggle it until they're dead, so you'd better be good or you'll die. lol. But i change my style all the time. What i do, is stop playing it for atleast a three weeks and by then i would have forgotten my old style, that way i create new styles. Then i try to remeber my old ones, mix it with my new style and wallah! There, thats what i do. (What a whole lot of crap, lol)