Yoshi: One of the three worst characters? Say it ain't so!

While on a forum I found in teshimitsu's faq on gamefaqs, Tekken Zaibatsu, I found a tier list thread, and everyone's in agreement. Yoshimitsu always shows up a one of the third worst characters, along with armor king and my other favorite: Kuma.

Why do I fall in love only with those that betray me?

Worst? Says who? Lemme get on a few facts; :D

1) Our man Yoshimitsu never officially wins the tournament, how many non-Mishima or non-Kazama has get the first price anyway? (Which, if you ask me, sucks big time)

2) Yoshimitsu isn't that much liked because you can't just button-smash your way out with him, unlike with Eddy/Christie, Hwoarang, Paul and so forth.

3) And because of the latter, there aren't many Yoshimitsu fans because many just want to go with the easier characers. But if you're one of those who has had the patience to figure what Yoshimitsu can do... I'd say you'd be one of the best potentials in any tournament.

Even though I personally use Bryan more and more often, I'm still the first one to point out that Yoshi's da man :) So let there come any other character, I say Yoshi ownz 'em all :D

This post was edited by Kogamitsu (2006-08-21 05:10, 11 years ago)

I'd like to think that, but I'm getting the same thing from beginners and experts alike. Apparently, once an opponent knows all of his tricks, he's at a disadvantage, when characters like the mishimas are simply powerful.

Everyone gave different explanations, but none of them were satisfying...

Characters like Mishimas are simply [cencored].

Don't believe everything they say. Yoshimitsu is very unpredictable in the right hands - you can't just 'guess' what he's gonna do next, because practically speaking, he could be doing anything. ;)

Perhaps, but when all his fancy tricks are known and reversable, he's left kinda weak.

Except kamekaze. Nothing beats kamekaze.

Actually, in Tekken 5.0 he's one of the best. In Tekken Dark resurrection he is unnecessarily toned down, which enrages me. But Yoshi is not a character for beginners.

One of my friends started learning Tekken from this character... and that was my mistake. He didn't have time to learn the basics, Yoshimitsu requires much sophistication and devotion, and mastering the physics of the game. He quitted Tekken... he couldn't handle the game and overpowered top tiers. but I hope he'll return.

If you have any doubts how Yoshimitsu should be played, please take a look at match movies gathered in our match movies Section (in "Media" folder). Not all of his moves can be used instantly. They're either slow or punishable, or have one or more flaws that can be easily anticipated (easy to ss, backdash, etc.).

There are moves that must be used on purpose: for offensive, countering, or evading... it's the matter of knowing which moves should be used where and when. You won't use 1+4 as a direct attack simply because it's not meant for it. The same for u+3+4, or b+3+4.... pretty obvious.

You have to keep all of his moves in your memory and use them when the time comes. You see somebody charging in? u+3+4 will evade most of his moves! and so on, and so on.

Yoshimitsu pretty much forces us to use traps and setups to raise his efficiency. This is another skill factor. He doesn't require manual skills, but thinking and analysing. This is a good thing. He is unique due to adding the unblockable moves to his arsenal. And this is area at which he exceedes other characters, which are pretty "standard".

Some players play very defensively, and this is the core of efficient Tekken gaming. They back off, are experts in breaking throws, they never attack first, they see low sweeps over 15 frames of execution. They can't be beaten easily!.... by standard characters. Because, what can you do to them if they play in such a way, backdashing and punishing your moves, blocking lows and juggling for a half of a lifebar...?

Yoshimitsu is completely another story. Most of players will be COMPLETELY broken by Yoshimitsu if they aren't experienced versus him. He forces them to think into other way. They're not that safe, backing off... they can't count on "duck and block" reaction, if Yoshi ducks in front of them, since he has UNBLOCKABLE sweep. (many people tell me "I still want to block it!"... this is the power of habits...) They can't just wait since Yoshi can quickly regain energy, and so they're forced to attack. and if we add Yoshimitsu's supreme skills in evading and countering...

But this is not that happy-puppy situation for Yoshi, anyway. He has supreme arsenal, but to use it just in time is another story. Besides, his moves aren't that powerful as other character's simple techniques. One milimeter of sidestep and Yoshi can miss...
Yoshimitsu player must be focused to the maximum and always be one step ahead. He must predict more than others and even plan a whole strategy a few rounds ahead... this is skill. He can't just throw random moves (maybe except some... Yoshi must have something to attack anyway ;))...

And that's why Yoshi is for experts. He doesn't "Play himself" like e.g. Feng Wei (Which I played lastly... and with learned skills from ages of Yoshimitsu-playing, I was able to beat nearly anyone... o_O he's soooo easy to use! I was nearly not needed for him to finish his opponent!!! So no-brainer...).

So... be awared of these facts if you plan to devote long hours in mastering Yoshimitsu. You better pick another character, easy to use (Lili? Feng Wei? Wang? Ganryu?).... it will be a nice idea.

Do you have any questions? :)

Hmm, I'd assumed yoshimitsu was a good character for beginners simply because of his 1+2s and 3+4s. However, I've already bought a Tekken: DR card for yoshi, and I'm not going down that easily. I've been spending time memorizing juggles, and when push comes to shove, I can beat the average opponent with simplistic moves of his anyway.

That last paragraph was kinda hard to understand. Did you mean I should learn more of the basics with other characters before coming back to youshimitsu, that I'd better devote long hours to him, or else change my character, or to give up because I'm not good enough. I getting kind of insulted, because it's looking more and more like the last one. I admit I'm pretty whiny at times, but that's mostly to see if there's any extra information I can get out of someone.

Don't get it personally. What I said is that Yoshimitsu is not good for learning the basics of the game simply because you can't rely on his moves many times. OK, let's give an example...

The basics of the game: it's like knowing Natural Combos, moves killing sidestep, moves best to hit backdash/backroll, evading moves, crushing moves.

You pick Yoshimitsu... you want to train him. You want to train the basics...

- you hit your opponent with d/f+1,1... and then: "WHAT? the second blow missed! but it's the natural combo!!! how's that possible?!"

- then you do u/f+4, but your opponent got behind you! "WHAT?! But this move hits sidesteppers!!!"

- then you do FC,d/f+3, but it missed your opponent milimetres! "WHAT?! It should've hit backdashers and sidesteppers to Yoshi's right!"

- you do SS+1, but opponent's high kick hit Yoshi on CH! "WHAT?! It's said to be the perfect evading move+high crush!!!"

- you do u/f+3, but jabs hit Yoshi! "WHAT?! It's both high and low crusher!!!"

....

By using Yoshi, it's hard to rely on the properties of the moves, the timing also really matters, and your alignment before the move comes out... And the basics are essential. Sometimes I out-stress myself by picking characters whose moves I can truly rely on....

Let's say... if you master the basics 100%, you'll be able to play every character in the game and win consistently. The character of your choice is just a tool, more or less capable of crushing/evading/countering.

Anyway, having 2 or 3 characters is always a good idea. I play sophisticated character like Yoshi and straight no-brainers like Ganryu, Wang or Feng. Changing style can give you fresh ideas for Yoshi.

I see what you're saying. I've found myself enjoying Marduk. Well, while I'm not going to get a new card, I'll get some of the basics with other characters.


Honestly, I have trouble pulling off combos. The only juggles I can remember are d/f+2, d/f+2, b+1,1,(1),1, u/f+4 and SS 2, 1, 1.

The first one I can usually get to the b+1s, but I never get it right and manage to get the u/f+4. The second one... Well, simple as it is, I usually get hit trying to pull it off. The only thing I have good timing for is easy to pull off crushing moves.

Yoshimitsu is my favorite but I only use him when I pwn noobs so I can brush up on him becuase he is not offensive at all he requires stradegy unlike some other characters I use (Steve, Bryan, and Kazuya)so Yoshimitsu is like the funniest character to play with but I wont use him when being serous....

Hi there. I'm new to this site, but discovered it through Tekkenzaibatsu.

Tenshimitsu, I have to say you definatelly know what you're talking about, but there's one flaw to it. :) And it is the following:

While indeed Yoshimitsu's someone not to be handled by beginners, that's exactly the thing that brought his game down. He's simply too complex of a character, that required percision in fighting. And it is exactly that limitation, that extreme nessesity of precision, that causes for him to be avoided easily when the timing doesn't go right And aside from that, he has a lot of counter-giving moves, and not enough safe moves.

Put even a player of medium experience against him when the person's using a Ling, and watch Yoshimitsu get massacred. Tekken 5 had far more balance than the previous ones, and sadly, Yoshimitsu went from the powerhouse he was in Tekken 4, to a lowtier. His sweeps are easily foreseen, and his unblockables have become a bit too slow. While his qcf+1 is still an amazing maneuver, and uf+1+2 mixed with Dragonfly call for new fun techniques, his game hasn't evolved much. His speed was brought down, and a lot of his moves have gotten far too slow. The frame numbers are gathering up on him, and therefore some other mid-range fighters (Asuka, Kazuya, Roger) can easily overpower him is offense is at hand.

I truly do have full respect for your opinion, and do support Yoshimitsu full-heartedly ( Haha, otherwise why be on this forum, right?) but it's indeed an inevitable truth, that even if you put it your all, if someone equally matched does the same with majority of the other characters, Yoshimitsu simply doesn't hold his stamina.

_M_

manji_rana : Tekken 5 had far more balance than the previous ones, and sadly, Yoshimitsu went from the powerhouse he was in Tekken 4, to a lowtier.
Without getting into a debate, I think you've got this completely backwards.

Anyway, welcome to YTS and enjoy your stay. :)

BigChief :
manji_rana : Tekken 5 had far more balance than the previous ones, and sadly, Yoshimitsu went from the powerhouse he was in Tekken 4, to a lowtier.
Without getting into a debate, I think you've got this completely backwards.

Anyway, welcome to YTS and enjoy your stay. :)

Thank you very much for the kind greeting. :)

As for the debate, you actually sparked my interest. It'd be nice to go from the rampant arguments on Tekken Zaibatsu to a more intellectual discussion regarding difference of opinion in a character's fighting capabilities.

So what is your reasoning behind the disagreement? I would love actually to see what exactly my opinion flaws in, because I might just learn a thing or two.

_M_

Okay, let me just give you a very brief summary of why I think Tekken 5 Yoshi is better than Tekken 4 Yoshi, and why I think Yoshi can hold his own against many other characters despite the skill of the player.

In Tekken 4, he was severely lacking. I like to think that his movement was more fluid, but manoeuvrability just wasn't enough compared what the other characters had (Jin in particular, but also Steve, Nina and some others). Specifically, he was lacking in range, strength and juggles. With the release of Tekken 5, Yoshimitsu obtained much greater range for many of his attacks, his old TTT strength back (well, most of it anyway), the old-school juggle system, insane wall damage and follow-ups, and a plethora of new moves that makes him well suited against any character. Oh yeah, and the old flash back! Not to mention Kamikaze, which is just a ridiculous attack; I simply can't help abusing it sometimes.

Granted, he did have some great stuff in Tekken 4 as well. I particularly enjoyed the long range stopping power of Soul Stealer, and the relatively powerful Running Flea wall combos, not to mention the infamous Flea Charge that was removed. He also had the usually guaranteed combo: f+2, b+1, 2+4. But I don't think these compare to his solid new strength.

From reading your post, I realise that you may need to rinse up your Yoshi game. Moonsault Slayer (qcf+1) is usually limited to arcade scrubs, VS. CPU, or your friends and family who have no idea how to play the game. Check out some professional matches (there should be some on this site somewhere =P) and you'll see how Yoshi should really be played. That's not to say that Moonsault Slayer ain't any good, but it should be used in very limited quantites, as it becomes predictable and is easily punished.

For more info on Yoshi, you simply must check out Tenshi's FAQ (again, it's around here somewhere). I could go on and on, but at this point I would also like to know why YOU think Tekken 4 Yoshi is better. Okay, I think that's enough from me for today. =P

Cheers,
BigChief

yoshimitsu is one of the best characters for me!! :yes

most players have difficulty fighting yoshimitsu (like mE, but i need more practice) coz they dont know how yoshimitsu moves and fights, although, i know yoshimitsu is in the strategic side not offensive, im trying to be a bit offensive as yoshi, which, isnt working, so, with patience, you'll really know the power of yoshimitsu!!!! :yes